Hey, it’s Michael. This week, The Daily is revisiting some of our favorite episodes of the year and hearing what’s happened in the time since they first ran. Today: We return to the unlikely story of a 33-year-old, who bought a cryptocurrency intended to be a meme, and became a millionaire in the process, to find out what he’s lost or gained in the time since.
It’s Wednesday, December 29.
So Kevin, the last time we spoke with you, you had, quite improbably, made $750,000 by selling a picture of your column in the form of a non-fungible token. So what have you been up to since then?
Well, quick update — the value of cryptocurrency has skyrocketed in the time since that episode. So the NFT that I sold is actually now worth about $1.4 million.
Show-off.
Again, I don’t get to keep it. I am a fake cryptocurrency millionaire, but there you go.
So I’ve kind of moved on from NFTs, but I’ve stayed very interested in the world of cryptocurrency. And for the last few weeks, there’s been one giant story in the world of cryptocurrency. And that is the story of Dogecoin.
(SINGING) We’re going to take Dogecoin to the moon.
- archived recording
A positively dogged rise, it says here, in the price of Dogecoin.
Dogecoin has been everywhere.
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Its total value stands at $86 billion, more than FedEx.
Every time I open my TikTok feed, there’s, like, a video about Dogecoin.
- archived recording (music)
Hold it, hold it, hold it, never sell. Much rich. Buy more. Buy more. Buy more. Buy more. It’s doing well. Such high.
Every time I go on Twitter, there are people talking about it. I have friends that I haven’t talked to in years, like, texting me about whether or not they should invest in it.
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Shut up, and take my money.
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Every day, the internet has a main character, and today, you know, Reddit and Twitter have decided that main character is Dogecoin.
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The moon, Dogecoin to the moon.
And beyond.
So unlock that word and that concept for us, as only can — Dogecoin.
Sure. So Dogecoin is something like Bitcoin or Ethereum or any of these other cryptocurrencies. It’s a way to send and receive money on the internet. And it was created in 2013, during the first real speculative mania around Bitcoin. And it was literally meant as a joke. These two programmers created it to poke fun at how seriously all these investors and speculators were taking cryptocurrency.
And, basically, they decided, we should sort of make fun of the people trading cryptocurrencies by making our own joke cryptocurrency. So they take this meme, this Shiba Inu dog, who was called Doge, that was sort of popular in the 2013 internet, who would, like, talk in Comic Sans and would say things like, “much wow,” like, “so scare.” So they decided, we’re going to combine Bitcoin with Doge and make Dogecoin.
So given that context, who would bother to trade this parody of a currency, Dogecoin?
So for most of its life, Dogecoin is basically worthless. One Dogecoin is worth a tiny fraction of a cent. But this year, as Bitcoin and Ethereum and these other cryptocurrencies are having another massive run, Dogecoin made this very strange comeback. It totally exploded.
And I kept hearing about these big time Dogecoin traders. There was one, in particular. People on the Dogecoin subreddit were calling him, like, the Dogefather or Slumdoge Millionaire.
- kevin roose
Would you mind just introducing yourself and explaining a little bit about who you are?
- glauber contessoto
Yeah, sure.
And his name is Glauber Contessoto.
- glauber contessoto
So I go by Jason or Pro, but my birth name is Glauber Contessoto.
We get on a video call. He’s a big guy, big beard. He’s got a picture of Jay-Z behind him.
- glauber contessoto
And I work here in L.A. I work at a music company, a hip hop music company.
So Glauber is 33 years old. He was born in Brazil. He came to the U.S. when he was six years old, and his family landed in the Washington, D.C. area.
- glauber contessoto
We basically grew up very poor, so I remember growing up. We were in a little apartment, like basement kind of area. I shared a room with my sister until I was, like, 13.
His mom and dad didn’t even have their own room.
- glauber contessoto
They had, like, the back end of the apartment that we had to put a divider up, so they had some privacy.
So he graduates from high school, goes to college but ends up dropping out, and then stays in the D.C. area for a while. And he meets this aspiring rapper and decides to manage him. And, like, he really wants to work in the music industry.
- glauber contessoto
Maryland is not the place for music, so I’m like, either I’m moving to New York or L.A. I have some friends out here already, so I was like, L.A. it is.
And like a lot of people who move to L.A. hoping to have a career in the entertainment industry, Glauber has a dream. He wants to buy a house.
Hmm.
- glauber contessoto
That’s what I’ve always wanted, because my family has never owned a house. So I’m like, I want to buy a house. And the reason for me buying a house is I wanted to get a bunch of rooms, so my artists could come live with me. Like, I can get Lambo to come out here and live there, and then work on music. He doesn’t have to worry about rent, doesn’t have to worry about food or anything.
But when he gets to L.A., he does not have anywhere near the amount of money he’s going to need to do that.
- glauber contessoto
So I’m sleeping on couches. I have a friend of mine in Van Nuys. I’m sleeping on his couch. And then I sleep on a couch in West Hills. So I actually have screenshots of all of 2017 of my bank account, because to motivate myself, I changed the name of my bank account to Pro Is Broke As Fuck. And then I had a little part there, and it’d be like $1 or like $0.50 or like $50 or something like that in my account. It was crazy. So —
- kevin roose
I didn’t know you could change the name of your bank account.
- glauber contessoto
Yeah, you can. It’s so funny.
And he starts picking up some freelance video editing gigs. He’s making like $1,000 a month. And he eventually gets this break. He gets a job at a startup in L.A. They’re having him do sort of entry-level video editing. And as he starts getting more experienced and taking on more responsibilities, he eventually starts making a little more money.
- glauber contessoto
All I do is work.
- kevin roose
So you’re making a little bit more money at that point. Like, did you — did you change the name of your bank account?
- glauber contessoto
Yes, I did. I just went back to what it was before.
But as he’s continuing to sort of save up, he really develops like tunnel vision on this goal of buying a house.
- glauber contessoto
I do everything in my power to do that. I’m saving every bit of money that I can. I’m like — my money every month is literally going to bills. My car is a piece of shit. I’m not going out shopping. I’m not going on vacation. I’m not going to concerts.
So at the beginning of 2020, he finally has enough money saved up that he thinks he can start looking for a house. But that turns out not to be easy. Like, he just can’t find any place that’s within his budget.
- glauber contessoto
So I’m like, I’m going to find a house that’s $300,000, because I could do 20 percent of that.
So he starts working with a realtor, and eventually —
- glauber contessoto
I find this house in the woods, past Pasadena, like up by the mountains. And it’s like $350,000. I’m like, that’s fine. At least I’ll have a house, right? That’s all I ever wanted.
So he gets really excited. He can actually afford a down payment on this place.
- glauber contessoto
So the realtor calls the house, calls me back the next day, and says, oh, they’re cash only. You’ve got to pay for the whole thing.
And so his dream is dashed again.
- glauber contessoto
I’m like, that’s it. I can’t get a house. God doesn’t want me to get a house.
And he ultimately decides, like, maybe this just isn’t in the cards for me right now.
So this is a pretty depressingly familiar version of the American dream — a guy who comes from not very much, works really hard, tries to save up, does save up, and still feels stuck. Because in a city like Los Angeles, given the economics of trying to buy a home, he is actually stuck. The system’s just not working for him.
Exactly. This whole classic sense of you work hard, you climb the ladder, you buy a house, you settle down — like, that version of the economy is just not really working for him.
But then he figures out that he actually has another option.
We’ll be right back.
So 2020, the pandemic hits, go into lockdown, and over the course of that year, Glauber stops thinking about buying a house and starts just focusing on work. But then, this year —
- glauber contessoto
2021, GameStop happens, right?
This weird thing happens with GameStop, this video game store.
Right, this weird thing being a social media frenzy around GameStop that leads the stock to soar, creates enormous wealth for the people who got in early, but more than that, it also sent a message to establishment players and finance that regular investors were now in charge.
Right. And that gets Glauber thinking, like, if I could figure out the next GameStop before it happens, like, maybe that’s my ticket.
- glauber contessoto
While I go through the Reddit, somebody posts, has Dogecoin ever gone to $1? And then I’m like, what the — what the hell is Dogecoin?
And that’s when he hears about Dogecoin. Like, this thing that is really taking off on the internet, that is exciting people, that’s getting people interested in investing, and that the people who get in on the ground floor of this might actually be able to make some money off of it.
- glauber contessoto
I have an extra 40 bucks, somehow, in — of my buying power or whatever, right? So I take those 40 bucks. I put it in Dogecoin. I’m like, this is fun. Let’s see what happens. Psh, put it on Dogecoin.
So he starts small, and —
- glauber contessoto
The very next day, Dogecoin goes from a penny to 8 cents. I’m staring at my phone watching it go from 40 bucks to 100 bucks to 150 to 200, 250, 350.
The price of Dogecoin goes up like 700 percent.
Wow.
- glauber contessoto
I’m like, I don’t know what the hell this is, but I’m not missing the next time this happens. I have to get in on this. No stock I’ve ever purchased before has ever done this.
And he’s realizing like, oh, this might be actually happening. I might have bet right.
So what’s drawing him to Doge is not the intrinsic value of a Dogecoin, but the fact that lots of other people are excited about and being drawn into Doge?
Right. In a way, it’s purely speculative. He’s just betting that this thing that is going up will continue to go up. But Glauber sort of has this new millennial, Gen Z way of looking at the stock market, which is that it doesn’t really matter what the underlying value of something is. It’s more about attention and momentum, and figuring out where the culture is going, than it is about the actual soundness of the investment.
- glauber contessoto
I wake up. I go to sleep for a few hours, wake up. Next day — bam — up at $0.05, $0.06, goes back down to $0.04. I’m like, this isn’t going down to $0.02 ever again. This isn’t going down to $0.01 ever again. This is going to go up.
And then there’s this tipping point.
And when is that?
In February of this year, Elon Musk, CEO of Tesla, one of the richest men in the world, and kind of like self-appointed king of the meme internet, starts tweeting about Dogecoin. He calls it “the people’s crypto,” and he says that he’s actually buying Dogecoin for his son.
- glauber contessoto
Elon does a blast of like 8 or 9 or 10 tweets, like back to back to back to back, and it shoots up from $0.03 to, like, $0.04 to $0.05 to $0.06. I’m like, this is it. This is the blastoff. I’m missing it right now.
And Glauber starts sort of thinking about this as the point of no return. Like, Dogecoin is popular. It’s getting more popular. Elon Musk is tweeting about it. This thing is going to the moon, as they say on Reddit.
- glauber contessoto
So now I was like, I’m going all in. Like, this last thing was it for me.
And so he makes up his mind, and he decides to put everything he has into Dogecoin.
Can you quantify that? What do you mean?
I mean everything, like his entire life savings.
- kevin roose
How much money did you decide to invest?
- glauber contessoto
Total, it was $250,000 at 4.5 cents.
He put in about $250,000.
Wow. That’s a lot of money.
A lot of money. And actually, he went into debt so that he could buy more Dogecoin.
So how does this quarter million dollar bet end up playing out for Glauber?
So he goes all in in February. And for the first couple months, it doesn’t really make him much money. But then April 15 rolls around.
What happens then?
So that day — it’s a Thursday — Elon Musk — he’s sort of been tweeting about Dogecoin off and on for a long time — posts this image on Twitter. It’s actually a painting of a dog barking at the moon. And he captions it “Doge barking at the moon.” And people on Reddit get super excited, because the moon, in Reddit speak, is what happens when something goes viral.
Right on cue, the price of Dogecoin starts to skyrocket.
And what does this mean for Glauber?
- glauber contessoto
Man, it was the craziest day, because, like I said, I knew in my heart it was going to go up. And I was —
So he’s just watching all this happen in real time. Like, he’s looking at his phone, at the value of his investment. It’s just going up and up and up.
- glauber contessoto
You know, 200, 300, 400, 500, 600, 700.
And eventually, like, the price of Dogecoin ends up going up hundreds of percentage points that day, like more than triple the value at the start of the day.
- glauber contessoto
So I know the exact time it happened. It was April 15, at 6 p.m. I’m staring at my phone like I usually do, and I’m looking at it, and it’s keep — it’s going up, going up, going up.
And the value of Glauber’s Dogecoin investment —
- glauber contessoto
And then it crosses over the million mark.
— crosses a million dollars.
- glauber contessoto
And I’m like, it’s today, today, now. I’m a million — right now, I’m a millionaire. I’m 33 years old. I just became a millionaire.
Wow. Yeah, it’s wild.
- glauber contessoto
I texted my mom. I was like — I was like, Mom, your son’s a millionaire. She was like, you’re lying. No, you’re not. Blah, blah. I sent her a screenshot. I have a screenshot of all that. I sent it to her, and I was like — I was like, your son’s finally a millionaire.
I was like, everything’s going to be all right. I was like, you know, like, you can start looking at houses.
(CRYING) And she writes me back. She’s like, all I want is you and your sister’s happiness, and I’m good. That shit, like — it was crazy, man. Like, this thing changed my life.
And it doesn’t even stop there.
- glauber contessoto
12 hours later, 6:40 a.m. the next day, it hits $1.8 million.
The price of Dogecoin just keeps going up and up and up, and by the time I talked to him —
- glauber contessoto
I could show you guys on the screen right now, if you want to see.
- kevin roose
What is it? Can you just read that to me?
- glauber contessoto
Yeah.
He had turned his original investment of about $250,000 into —
- glauber contessoto
At this very second, it’s at $2,431,000.
— almost $2.5 million.
Wow. Yeah, that’s a big number.
That’s a huge number.
- glauber contessoto
Well, it just went up.
That is truly astonishing and, basically, an overnight fortune.
Yeah.
But of course, this wealth is paper wealth. He has to sell Dogecoin in order to get it, and I’m nervous just hearing you tell this story on Glauber’s behalf, because I think it might be time for him to sell. So does he sell?
Uh, no.
- glauber contessoto
No. It didn’t cross my mind — not once — to sell it.
And why not?
Because he sees this as a long-term investment.
- glauber contessoto
If you could buy into Amazon when it was $10 a share, would you have sold when it hit $20 or when it hit $200? No, you wouldn’t.
I think part of the reason is just he thinks it’s going to keep going up. He doesn’t want to miss out on the gains that he’ll make if Dogecoin goes to $1 or $2 or $5. But he’s also got this ideological motivation.
- glauber contessoto
I look at Dogecoin as the future. I truly believe in the cryptocurrency. Like, I believe Dogecoin is the future of currency.
Like a lot of people, he thinks that the sort of old financial system with all the banks and hedge funds and transaction fees and middlemen, that’s all becoming obsolete.
- glauber contessoto
We realized the system is rigged. The stock market’s rigged. Wall Street — they all play their game. Hedge funds play their game. If they’re winning, it’s all good and fine and dandy. And you can buy and sell all you want. It’s a free trade. As soon as they start losing billions, they change the rules.
And the thing that’s replacing it is this kind of parallel economy that’s growing up around the internet, this cryptocurrency economy. So he’s optimistic about cryptocurrency, but he’s specifically optimistic about Dogecoin.
- glauber contessoto
Like, it’s the most friendly, the funnest, the most exciting cryptocurrency. Kids will get into it. Old people will get into it. Every — people that don’t know anything about cryptocurrency — Dogecoin is the bridge. Dogecoin bridges the gap between the real world and the cryptocurrency world.
- kevin roose
If you’re wrong, and Dogecoin loses 99 percent of its value tomorrow, would you have any regrets?
- glauber contessoto
I’ll buy the dip.
- kevin roose
You’ll buy more?
- glauber contessoto
Yeah.
- kevin roose
You’re a mad man.
I think, in some way, he represents the attitudes of this cohort of young people, who are getting out into the economy, who are trying to make it the old way, climbing the ladder one rung at a time. And they’re realizing, like, that actually might not work anymore. And so they’re looking for trampolines, basically. They’re looking for big bets that they can take. Maybe it won’t work, but maybe it will. And to Glauber, like, that risk is not a turnoff.
- glauber contessoto
Scared money don’t make no money. That’s just the reality of it. People get scared, and people want to be safe and not take any risks.
In fact, that’s what draws him to Dogecoin. He wants the risk.
- glauber contessoto
I feel like those experts on TV and, like, the older generation of like old money and wealth, they try to scare people into staying safe, right, and to not taking these big risks. I’m not going to take what an expert says on TV for their word.
He doesn’t want to do it the safe way, because he thinks maybe this is his trampoline. Maybe this is the risk that is going to pay off for him.
- glauber contessoto
I mean it’s a rags to riches story, bro. Like, I’m trying to tell you, like, this — this shit changed my entire life.
- kevin roose
Maybe it’s a rags to riches and back to rags?
- glauber contessoto
This — this — you know what this is? This is the story of the Underdoge. I’ve always felt like the underdog my whole life. I’m serious, man. Like, I’ve always had a chip on my shoulder, always been like, there’s got to be more. There’s got to be more to life. I’ve got to be able to accomplish more. Like, there’s no way it’s just this.
- kevin roose
Yeah. Well, thank you again for your time, and I’ll call you back if I have other questions. But this is really, really fun.
- glauber contessoto
Awesome.
- kevin roose
All right, take care.
- glauber contessoto
Alrighty. Bye bye.
When we come back, Kevin gets an update from Glauber.
- kevin roose
Glauber, can you hear me?
- glauber contessoto
Hey, hey, what’s up?
- kevin roose
Hey, man.
- glauber contessoto
What’s going on?
- kevin roose
Good to see you.
- glauber contessoto
You too, man. How’s it going?
- kevin roose
Good. Good. It’s good to talk to you. So Glauber, when we last talked to you, you had invested your whole life savings in Dogecoin. And it had paid off. Like, you turned I think it was an initial investment of about $250,000 into something like $2.5 million. So I’m going to start by asking, what is the value of your Dogecoin right now?
- glauber contessoto
Oh, so that’s how we’re starting it off? We’re just going for the jugular? [LAUGHS] Naw.
- kevin roose
I don’t know. You tell me.
- glauber contessoto
Uh, yeah, no, we could check out the portfolio. I think I’m actually roughly around $600,000 or $700,000 right now.
- kevin roose
Got it. And so not to rub it in, but when we last talked to you, our episode was called, “A Conversation with a Dogecoin Millionaire.” Today, it seems like you are no longer a Dogecoin millionaire.
- glauber contessoto
Yes, exactly. It’s a conversation with a Dogecoin thousandaire right now. 100,000-aire.
- kevin roose
So what happened?
- glauber contessoto
Man, so much happened. Since Dogecoin took off, you’ve had all types of copycats. You know what I mean? You’ve had Mommy Doge, Daddy Doge, Baby Doge, Uncle Doge, Cousin Doge. Like, you had every version of Doge that you can think of, and I feel like that took a lot of momentum away from Dogecoin. Like, if everybody just kind of stuck together and was like, let’s get this Dogecoin all the way to $1, it would have happened by now, given the amount of money that’s been put into other meme coins and other projects.
- kevin roose
Right. And I know that was a big goal for a lot of Dogecoin people and investors was to get it to $1 — $1 per Dogecoin.
- glauber contessoto
Yeah.
- kevin roose
What is the value of a Dogecoin today?
- glauber contessoto
Today is probably the worst day to do this interview, because Dogecoin is at its lowest point since it took off. It’s about $0.16 right now, which is insane, because for the majority of the year, it stayed around $0.30. And I tell people this all the time. Dogecoin at $0.25 or above, I’m a millionaire. So for the majority of the year, I’ve been a millionaire. It’s only been until recently that it’s dropped under $0.25, I guess, within the last month or so that I lost that status.
- kevin roose
Wow. So that’s a drop of about half, about 50 percent.
- glauber contessoto
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Another coin that I’ve invested in very heavily since we last spoke is Floki. So —
- kevin roose
What is Floki?
- glauber contessoto
So Floki is also another meme coin, but Floki is named after Elon’s dog. So Elon’s dog, which is a Shiba Inu dog —
- kevin roose
Elon Musk?
- glauber contessoto
Elon Musk, yes. So that investment — I’ve been kind of slowly putting more and more money into it.
- kevin roose
How much of your money do you have invested in Floki?
- glauber contessoto
I have about — wow, I’ve been buying a lot of dips. I have well over $100,000 of my own money invested in Floki. It’s probably my second biggest investment in a coin since Dogecoin, so Dogecoin is probably my biggest investment, and then Floki is like right up there.
- kevin roose
I saw a few months back that Elon Musk had actually tweeted at you.
- glauber contessoto
[LAUGHS] He did. Elon Musk tweeted back at me on Twitter, which was like a surreal moment. Like I woke up one day, I looked at my phone, and everybody was like, wait, bro, Elon — Elon just tweeted you. Look, bro, Elon just tweeted you. I’m like, you guys — I thought — I thought it was photoshopped. I went and checked my Twitter, and sure enough, Elon responded to one of my tweets talking about the mass appeal that Dogecoin has.
And his tweet was very important. Like, he replied to me saying one of the big reasons why he decided to support Dogecoin was because he saw his factory workers holding Doge, and to him, it was the people’s currency. So that was a huge deal. Man, I was through the roof and to the moon, man. I was really looking at it. I was like, I cannot believe this just happened to me, you know. Elon knows who I am, you know. That’s crazy to think about that.
- kevin roose
Yeah, you’re on his radar for sure.
- glauber contessoto
Yeah.
- kevin roose
I remember the last time we talked, part of the reason that you had started investing in Dogecoin was because you wanted to buy a house. You wanted to make plans for the future that you needed money for. So how has what’s been happening with Dogecoin over the past several months — how has that changed any of your plans for the future?
- glauber contessoto
I feel like most of my plans are still pretty intact, because when it comes to buying a house, you only have to put in a percentage, right, as far as the down payment is concerned. So I would still have enough for that. You know what I mean?
As far as some of the other things that I wanted to do for my mom, like, I wanted to pay off my mom’s bills. I’ll still be able to do that, you know. I want to do that for Christmas, actually. That’s my present to her — paying off all her bills and all her debt. And for example, my sister — I was able to fly her out from Brazil. We haven’t seen her in a few years. So that was fun.
But as far as, you know, the big picture, I feel like it’s still intact.
- kevin roose
I’ve got to tell you, after the episode that we did aired, I just got a ton of messages from people, like listeners, who, frankly, were just worried about you. Like, they were saying like, I really hope he sells.
- glauber contessoto
Yeah.
- kevin roose
I really hope we takes some money off the table. I worry that he’s going to end up losing most or all of his investments. So I’m just wondering, do you have any regrets about not selling when the price was so high?
- glauber contessoto
Well, here’s the crazy part. A lot of people look at these investments, and they think that’s all I have going on. You know what I mean? Like, oh, he invested all this money, and they’re looking at my portfolio like, that’s all I got.
If it goes down, it goes down, and I lose everything, not knowing that I’ve been working a lot behind the scenes. You know, I’ve been doing partnerships. I’ve been having projects coming up that — promos, ads, doing commercials for cereal and coffee and all types of things like these.
Like, this year alone, I’ve been able to make over $200,000 outside of Dogecoin. And that’s more than I’ve ever been able to make in a single year, you know. So to me, that’s still a win.
- kevin roose
Wow. So you’re like a crypto celebrity now.
- glauber contessoto
I mean, I don’t know. I guess.
- kevin roose
That’s amazing. Well, I’m glad you’re in good spirits. It’s been a wild year for you, so I hope you get some time off for the holidays.
- glauber contessoto
Yeah, man. Yeah, it’s, hands down, the craziest year of my entire life, man. Like, January of this year, I would have never, ever, ever thought anything close to this would have ever happened to me. And it’s just like kind of taking it in stride, but like, you’ve got to take the good with the bad. You know what I mean? And right now, we’re on a little bad patch, but we’ll be good pretty soon.
- kevin roose
Well, it’s great to talk to you again. Anyone else have any — any producers have any other questions? Nope.
- luke vander ploeg
Actually, one quick question. Profit-wise, what are you still standing at this point?
- glauber contessoto
I’m still standing over $500,000 in profit currently.
- luke vander ploeg
And your max profit was?
- glauber contessoto
$2.7 million, I want to say. I almost touched $3 million. I was at $2.9 million at the highest.
I was thinking — I was thinking, too, that when Dogecoin hits $1, you know, I’ll take out some too.
- kevin roose
If Dogecoin hits a dollar.
- glauber contessoto
When Dogecoin hits $1.
- kevin roose
[LAUGHS] I admire your optimism, and I’m glad you’re not my financial adviser.
- glauber contessoto
Yeah, man.
- kevin roose
Thank you. I appreciate you, and I will talk to you soon.
Today’s episode was produced by Rachelle Bonja and Luke Vander Ploeg, with help from Diana Nguyen. It was edited by Lisa Chow, Anita Badejo and Marc Georges, was engineered by Chris Wood and Corey Schreppel, and includes original music by Natalie Burdick and Dan Powell.
That’s it for The Daily. I’m Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.
